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Poster: George Minton Date: Mar 3, 2005 9:48pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

also 5.10.72

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Poster: paint-picker Date: Mar 4, 2005 1:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

08.27.72 has gone as well! Perhaps we really are going to get sunshine daydream now.Now off to get what shows I havn't downloaded yet. Panic stations!

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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: Mar 4, 2005 1:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I don't understand- if you think some things might be winking out here in advance of availability from the Grateful Dead themselves, why panic?

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Poster: lauraj400 Date: Mar 4, 2005 1:54am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Will the Dead shows be free on the new site and will they work with windows?

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Poster: Eric Geffner Date: Mar 31, 2005 11:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

free, hahahaha ya, right.... now that jer is gone the rats will play and we will be asked to pay

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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: Mar 4, 2005 2:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

The latest info about downloads from the Grateful Dead is here: http://dead.net/

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Poster: dr. flashback Date: Mar 5, 2005 3:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Okay, here is all the Dead have posted about Itunes and downloads on their site -
posted: 3/01/05
Download Grateful Dead Music

Live Grateful Dead archival recordings -- the two-track "Dick's Picks" series and the multi-track "Vault" series -- are now available for direct downloading through iTunes or through Dead.net's own GDStore.com.

I would like to know why so many shows have been removed from LAMA at once, when none of them is a vault release or a Dick's Picks. True, SOME of the songs on "Steppin Out Europe 72" are from the England shows - but none of the Paris shows have been released in any form. Neither have any of the 1969 run - 2/27,2/28,3/1, or 3/2 - been released, except that the 2/27 Dark Star is of course on Live Dead. But that was released in 1969, and people have traded the 2/27 show for decades.
I also seriously doubt that the "Dead Corporation"
is going to release ALL 4 of these 1969 shows at once. Furthermore, since they have recently released "Steppin Out" and "Rockin at the Rhine" from 1972, I doubt they are going to release more Europe 72 anytime soon. Again, it does not make sense why LAMA has chosen to remove so many shows all at once. If the "Dead Corporation" has suddenly changed their long standing policy on trading free non-released shows - it's new to me, and if LAMA has some information on this from the Dead then please either post it or offer us some explanation of why these shows are now off limits. As it stands - things are very unclear and ambiguous.
Let's take 5/26/72 as an example. This contains the great Truckin>Morning Dew that was released on Europe 72, but the rest of the show is NOT released, and has been traded freely for years, and still today is available on many FTP sites - AS IT SHOULD BE according to the Dead's own stated policy.
In my opinion, and I think I speak for most reasonable Deadheads here, we have for years maintained a healthy balance between downloading/trading free shows, yet still buying what we can afford as DP's or Vault releases, because we want to support the band and be fair.
Shows that are not released AS A WHOLE, or AUDIENCE versions of released shows, should be available for trading - as has been stated here by many reviewers recently. The last time I checked - the missing songs from DP #1 12/19/73 were still available here so folks who own that release could complete the whole show. This is a reasonable and kind policy - and it should continue.
What disturbs me - and I'm not necessarily blaming the band members themselves - is that some at Dead Inc. are now turning their backs on the Dead fans who traded free shows for decades and yet still bought all those $50 tickets to support the band. It disturbs me to see the "suits" start to try and grab every last dime out of shows that are 20 and 30 years old. Do you know any rich Deadheads? I don't either - and yet Dead.net is now advertising ALL of the Dick's Picks for over $700. Good luck! What's next - digitally remastering all the DP's so we'll have to buy them all AGAIN? Haven't all of us supported the Dead enough? We've made them all millionaires many times over. And we'll buy the new GD movie DVD, yes, and we'll buy the new Dick's Picks when they come out. But let us have our old, hissy, cuts-in-songs bootlegs free, that's all we ask. This whole Itunes thing stinks of greed and I'm against it. The way I see it - it's no different than the scumbags who sell free Dead bootleg shows on Ebay.
I and many others here would appreciate a clear, consistent and unambiguous policy from LAMA on the availability of Dead shows in the future. Shows suddenly disappearing by the dozens without a stated reason is dishonest and not in keeping with the spirit of what all this is about.
Thank you,
Dr. Flashback

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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: Mar 5, 2005 7:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Here is additional info apparently passed in email from the Dead to some fans very recently. I didn't receive a copy since I am not on their email list, but have seen fans posting it in various forums, around 3/1/05. (A link to a current news item containing the email is http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=14263 but not sure how long that will be current.)

2 NEW WAYS TO DOWNLOAD GRATEFUL DEAD MUSIC
Hey now.

It's time for our next step into the digital domain: Beginning March 1st, all the live Grateful Dead archival recordings -- the two-track "Dick's Picks" series and the multi-track "Vault" series -- will be available for direct downloading through iTunes Music Store and GDStore.com. Studio albums have been available at ITunes for some time.

In the near future, certain new, previously unreleased shows will be digitally available exclusively through the iTunes Music Store and GDStore.com.

You can access these downloads either through iTunes or through Dead.net's own GDStore.com Apple will be offering complete shows and single songs up to 10 minutes long in their AAC format. At GDStore.com, you can choose among four different file formats (128, 256, Windows Media, Lossless) for complete shows, but single songs won't be available.

We've been on the cutting edge of music distribution for more than 30 years, and the evolution to digital sharing is not surprising. Dead Heads have always honored ethical standards in their sharing, and we think this offering represents a great combination -- it's easy to use and it's legal.

Enjoy!
Your friends at Grateful Dead Productions


I notice it mentions additional "near future" material beyond the current DP and Vault items.

Although I would not even want to listen to all 2000+ shows the Dead ever performed, I'd love a chance to get a selection of my personal faves right from the Vault, such as the "Live Dead run."

BTW regarding the "regular" LMA at least, I do know that it is about archiving recordings to the extent that we are granted that privilege by the artists. See the FAQs here, and read many, many posts here on this forum over the years, where we emphasize that spirit of respect for the artists' wishes. I would be surprised if the Dead were treated differently in that regard, special collection or not.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-05 15:11:58

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Poster: NJoy Date: Nov 3, 2005 10:23am
Forum: etree Subject: March 30, 1990...Where is it?

Where did it go?! I never DL'ed the SHns and, alas, a favorite Spring 1990 show is lost in the digital ether. Any news folks?

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Poster: dr. flashback Date: Mar 5, 2005 10:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Dear Diane,
thank you for your response. I have been to Dead.net and checked out the download situation. And apparantly the breaking news from David Gans is that the 4 night run at the Fillmore in 1969 IS about to be released as a box set. So that explains why LAMA took that off.
Please do not take this personally, as I know you don't run LAMA by yourself. But I'm still waiting for an answer from someone as to why many other shows - let's use 5/10/72 as an example - are now gone. The only explanation is that someone at LAMA has an inside line to Dead Inc., and is getting advance notice of shows that WILL BE released for download soon. Can anyone give me a better explanation?
What would be awfully polite of you, is that instead of COMPLETELY removing the shows - like 4/14/72 - and all the reviews that folks have been nice enough to write for others information, why don't you leave the show listing along with a note -
"This show has been removed because it is soon to be available for download" - just like you have been doing with the Dick's Picks? Simple enough?

Let me also say, my main argument is NOT with you kind folks at LAMA, who have put in many hours of hard work so that all of us could share this great music for free. But I knew it was too good to last and I was right.
Obviously, Dead Inc. has been VERY threatened by what is going on at LAMA for free, and has quickly moved to cash in on your idea, even going so far as to set up audio streaming of shows - just like LAMA. It's soooooo transparent it's disgusting.
And apparantly they feel that releasing 2-3 Dick's Picks a year plus other Vault shows just doesn't make them rich enough, fast enough.

So let me now alert all Deadheads with this warning - if you like getting these free shows - get them now, fast! I'm convinced Dead Inc. will not stop until they've snatched away as many great 1973, 1974, etc. shows from LAMA as they can make you pay for. I predict that by the end of 2005, LAMA will only have a few shows from each year left - ones that no one wants anyway. Anybody wanna bet me?
Go check out the DL prices at GDstore.com - I dare you. They want the same money for FLAC versions as they charge through the mail order. BUT - you have to DL and print the booklet yourself. Hope you've got a nice printer or it'll look like sh**. And what if something screws up while you're downloading? A thunderstorm, your hard drive crashes, or some songs have errors that don't pass MD5 file checks. That never happens of course does it? Right! They will not give you your money back!!
For me, I am boycotting this shameless corporate rip-off. I was happy to buy the DPicks thru the mail, now they want the same money for no packaging plus I have to supply the blank CD's!
I will continue to copy and share ALL my Dead shows, including Dick's Picks, both B&P thru the mail and with my local friends. As a matter of fact, I am so pissed off they have taken away our bootleg for 4/14/72, one of the great 72 shows, that anybody that wants a copy, get in touch with me and I'll send you a seed SHN copy personally. F** 'em, so sue me.
All this is a larger context is part of the techno war between the RIAA and other corporate Republicans - and all those of us who believe that music should be shared on the internet for free. And we will win in the end. It's a losing battle and they know it, which is why they're grabbing all the $$$$$ they can now. Look at what's happening with DVD's and movie downloads. They can't stop it, the hackers and pirates break every code as fast as they create them.
As for all you goody goody types who say "oh, stealing music is wrong, it takes away money from these multi-millionaire artists". Let me ask you - did you ever tape an album for a friend back in the 70's? Or copy a tape or CD from your local library? You're GUILTY!! So let's all grow up. We all buy what we can, even at inflated ridiculous $17.99 CD prices. And we all copy some, and it all balances out in the end.
Victory to the pirates, aaarrrgg mateys!!
Dr. Flashback

[slight language edit- mod.]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-05 18:43:47

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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: Mar 5, 2005 8:40am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

apparantly the breaking news from David Gans is that the 4 night run at the Fillmore in 1969 IS about to be released as a box set.

You probably didn't see David's real post yet, so in quashing that rumor (as Wharfrat73 did just a little while ago on this thread), I'll point to http://hotline.deadnetcentral.com/WebX?50@136.N6t2a49lB3q.0@.4a855066, specifically:

"David Gans - 01:41pm Mar 5, 2005 PDT (#37 of 38)

I have no idea who posted that message nor where, but it did not come from me."

"Apparently," but not necessarily "obviously," that is the real David Gans talking there, not DavidGans. ;)

Doesn't mean there won't be some other future news- it's just not obvious yet.

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Poster: pathfinder Date: Mar 21, 2005 7:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Hey Doc. id love a copy of that 72' show, i have no shows from 72 and where better to start then the one that your so pissed about being gone,lol drop an email if you can help out here, thanks man, eddiers2003@yahoo.com

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Poster: Sangamon Taylor Date: Mar 5, 2005 10:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

"For me, I am boycotting this shameless corporate rip-off."

"Go check out the DL prices at GDstore.com - I dare you."

"F** 'em, so sue me."

"All this is a larger context is part of the techno war between the RIAA and other corporate Republicans - and all those of us who believe that music should be shared on the internet for free."

I don't understand? These guys are musicians, some of them still make their living off of the music they played in the past, and you are bitching about only having 2700 shows to choose from instead of 2800??? C'mon...

It's their call and always will be. They should not feel like they have to give it all away for free just cause you don't want to be separated from your dollar bills. I don't think they are being selfish, I think you are. You want Paris 72, fork over 20 bucks and support the musicians. There's 98 other '72 recordings still in the LMA if your money means that much to you.

I'm annoyed that folks are this worked up over this. There is 30 years worth of recordings here. 30 f**ng years!!! Stop and think about that, 30 years of 1 band documented in 1 place. Is it complete? No, but even having 95% of it in 1 place is incredible. If they want to preserve less than 1% of the recordings here so they can continue to make a living, we should still thank them for allowing something to be here. Go back and remember how you got that missing 1% 2 years ago. I'll give you a hint - it wasn't an instant download next to 2700 other recordings...

I disagree with your pessimistic overly angry assumption that all the shows are going to be gone. They have been at the forefront of a liberal policy in regards to making sure fans have access to the music. I have perfect faith that they will continue to treat us with respect forever.

Show some respect and show some gratitude, or find your way out the door.





This post was modified by Sangamon Taylor on 2005-03-05 17:53:50

[slight language edit- mod.]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-05 18:48:01

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Poster: Ole Uncle John Date: Mar 5, 2005 11:33am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Sorry to see that your annoyed that we're annoyed. I don't mean to be insulting and I have no idea whether you are familiar with the history of the band in question, but this new policy is a major sea change of 40 years of understood policy.ie: "When we are done with the music you can have it". Thru out their entire history the Grateful Dead allowed taping and trading of shows. First unofficially than finally as written official policy. Now this is beginning to be taken away from us. For example if Dan Healy , the bands late sound guy, let some folks plug into the soundboard 20 years ago knowing that they were going to make tapes for friends and others and now we are told to stop this free distribution it IS a BIG DEAL. The taping was always a win-win situation as the band never would have become what they were without the free advertising (have you ever listened to their early albums?) and we got something to take with us from the shows we paid to see. It’s even harder to take when it happens after those who were the greatest proponents of free taping are dead and gone.
LAMA is easily the greatest resource for live music on the web (In fact I think it is why Al Gore invented it) and I'm not meaning at all to criticize LAMA or the administrators . However if they have more information than us regarding shows being pulled I hope they'll share it.

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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: Mar 5, 2005 9:15pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Taping and trading of Dead tapes is still allowed AFAIK. There is no sea change on that. It would be *much* bigger news if there were a change in that regard, heh.

Likewise, I'd be surprised if there were any sea change re LMA. Speaking now of the "regular" LMA collection, plenty of other bands have communicated policies specific to having music (or not having music) in the LMA, apart from general fan taping and trading. Some say NO to LMA even if fan-fan trading and downloading is still OK as always (eg, MMW). Some update their LMA-specific notes over time (eg, Kimock, a few times now).

Should we be surprised if there were a similar situation with the Dead? The tides would be flowing normally for here.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-06 05:15:01

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Poster: dead trail Date: Mar 5, 2005 10:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I'd say the answer lies some where in between. For those without the bucks to pay for I-tunes /GD store downloads, there will still be archive choises available (and let's be grateful because alot of artists have outright said no entirely to this idea). You'll also be able to burn copies of friends downloads. In a perfect world there would be songs to fill the air, all for free! It's not a perfect world. There were long rumors of divisions among the band members on the whole digitizing, download phenomenom. It's not surprising that there's divisions among the faithful. Bottom line is the special flame handed to us in this music. Let's remain grateful and make our way through the darkness with this little bit of light. Just some thoughts, and I love hearing others!

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Poster: Exploding Plastic Inevitable Date: Mar 21, 2005 5:49am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

This is a response to Dr. Flashback more so than a response to the forum. I am surprised to hear what is happening but its also kind of to be expected. I'm glad there's an explanation for the missing shows nevertheless. The explanation isn't really one i'd like to hear but like you said this is all too good to be true. i came across this forum while looking for a copy of 4/14/72 somewhere on the web other than the archive and it doesn't exist as i have been informed. That is one of the few 72' shows i haven't downloaded and have been meaning to. Now it seems i can't. i hate to hold you (Dr. Flashback) to your word but i'd very much like a copy of that show. If you want to work out a trade or something you could email me at LBSkater247@hotmail.com.
Peace,
Luke

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Poster: worldbridger Date: Mar 13, 2005 7:06pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Dr Flashback wrote: 'I would like to know why so many shows have been removed from LAMA at once, when none of them is a vault release or a Dick's Picks. True, SOME of the songs on "Steppin Out Europe 72" are from the England shows - but none of the Paris shows have been released in any form' You should check out the China-Rider from the Europe 72 release, Paris in the Spring!!!

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Poster: rollandfin Date: Jun 20, 2006 7:05pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I think we all tend to lose our heads at times, maybe because we are at tug of war with morals.
It is the GD organization's prevailing option to set and change policy on exchange of music This can not really be disputed in.
The recordings however are a resource, & held in context of 2006, exist as the most valuable resource to both GD and us the fans. May 3rd 1972 in paris has come and gone and will never re-live. The ability of the band to perform as they did, (as good or as bad), at the Olympia Theatre has faded, and is now all but gone. But the recording has forever captured this moment in the timeline. It is from these performances that Grateful Deads content was created, and which many fans crave.
Commercial releases such as Rockin'The Rhine are great, becuase entire performances can be heard, and money is raised. LAMA Downloads such as May 26th 1973 at Kezar Stadium are equally as special, as they contain unique moments of musical bliss, otherwise lost to time. However May 3rd 1972 is not available for purchase, yet also not downloadable.
Try to imagine never hearing the aquistic sets of May 15th 1970 at the fillmore East, The Dark Star from The Capitol Theater on feb 18th 1971, The Scarlet>Fire form Barton Hall on May 8th 1977, or the Franklin's Tower From the Winterland Arena On June 9th later that year. Better yet, try to imagine never hearing them again. Is that a sense of loss, or an act of justice?

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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: Jun 20, 2006 7:40pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: pointer to Grateful Dead forum

This thread is over a year old. Since that time some things at the site have changed. For instance you may enjoy this newer, more focused GD forum instead:
http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead#forum

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Poster: dead trail Date: Mar 5, 2005 5:32am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Amen, Brother ( I do know some rich deadheads, but they are a
small minority!)

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Poster: Ole Uncle John Date: Mar 4, 2005 7:11pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Cause of Panic= Some of us can't afford to buy 2700+ shows at $20 a pop but will try our best to download them for free :)

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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: Mar 5, 2005 12:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Hm, if such an attitude is widespread, then perhaps I can understand if the Dead were to want to place limits on the availabilty of some things.

For instance, many "regular" LMA bands ask for the accomodation to have dates placed off limits if they match- or are even being considered for- commercial release. Some even place all SBDs offlimits. We do that willingly for them in the regular collection. There's even a FAQ about it:
http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#131

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-05 08:04:27

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Poster: Ole Uncle John Date: Mar 5, 2005 12:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I’m not sure what “attitude” I’m conveying by admitting I don’t have the $56,000 to spend on shows (2700X$20). I think most of us buy Dick’s Picks and the Vault releases, mostly because their quality is hard to beat, but my point is simply I hope we don’t have to go the pay route on EVERY show. Cheers.

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Poster: damhippy Date: Mar 7, 2005 7:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

I do think its a shame that some great shows have been pulled for profitable download.but look at it this way....weve been blessed to get all that weve gotten for free over the years..i repeat for FREE...shouldnt look a gift horse in the mouth so to speak.theres still a whole lot of garcia phil and friends and such to get that if you started downloadin now you prolly couldnt burn it all off your computer in a year.look at the allmans theyve been allowin tradin for herds and pulled ALL there stuff off downloadin sites a few years back.enjoy what we still have here.
ps thanks to the LMA people for there hard work and deadication to keepin this site goin....

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Poster: paint-picker Date: Mar 4, 2005 4:04pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

Only playing Diana, just my sense of humour! I noticed on the GDstore .com site that all the oficial releases are now available for download with covers booklets etc. You can get a download direct from the store as well as i-tunes thank goodness.

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Poster: Eric Geffner Date: Mar 31, 2005 9:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Live Dead run Missing

7-16-66
is also gone, I am not sure how long it has been MIA but it is now gone....
could some kind soul pleaassesseeee email me a list of what is gone from the list ???????
drgeff@yahoo.com
completists rule !!!!